Never Underestimate the Bureaucrat's Lack of Imagination

Phil Marti · Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 2520

Well, the official notice about how people not required to file a 2007 tax
return get their pennies from Congress is out. I've got an idea! Why don't
we have people who haven't filed a tax return in years and may be, shall we
say, a little rusty, file a 2007 return? Just in case it's too error-free,
let's also encourage some useless 1040 X's (from people whose 2007 returns
already qualify them for the maximum check).

No chance any of them will mess up, nor that IRS will make any processing
errors with the returns. I could be an IRS exec.

>From the IRS Newswire:

"Recipients of Social Security, certain Railroad Retirement and certain
veterans' benefits should report their 2007 benefits on Line 14a of Form
1040A or Line 20a of Form 1040. Taxpayers who already have filed but failed
to report these benefits can file an amended return by using Form 1040X. The
IRS is working with the Social Security Administration and Department of
Veterans Affairs to ensure that recipients are aware of this issue.
"'Some people receiving Social Security and veterans' benefits may not
realize they will need to file a tax return to get the stimulus payment,'
[Acting Commissioner Linda] Stiff said. 'To reach these people, the IRS and
Treasury will work closely with the Department of Veterans Affairs, the
Social Security Administration and key beneficiary groups on outreach
efforts.'"

I love lumping veterans' benefits with SS benefits. Hope someone remembers
to tell the CP-2000 computers.Life would have been so much simpler had they
just dropped $100 bills from the Goodyear Blimp.

--
Phil Marti
Clarksburg, MD

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Archived from group: misc>taxes>moderated

Avrum Lapin · Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 20

In article ,
"Phil Marti" wrote:

> Well, the official notice about how people not required to file a 2007 tax
> return get their pennies from Congress is out. I've got an idea! Why don't
> we have people who haven't filed a tax return in years and may be, shall we
> say, a little rusty, file a 2007 return? Just in case it's too error-free,
> let's also encourage some useless 1040 X's (from people whose 2007 returns
> already qualify them for the maximum check).
>
> No chance any of them will mess up, nor that IRS will make any processing
> errors with the returns. I could be an IRS exec.
>
> >From the IRS Newswire:
>
> "Recipients of Social Security, certain Railroad Retirement and certain
> veterans' benefits should report their 2007 benefits on Line 14a of Form
> 1040A or Line 20a of Form 1040. Taxpayers who already have filed but failed
> to report these benefits can file an amended return by using Form 1040X. The
> IRS is working with the Social Security Administration and Department of
> Veterans Affairs to ensure that recipients are aware of this issue.
> "'Some people receiving Social Security and veterans' benefits may not
> realize they will need to file a tax return to get the stimulus payment,'
> [Acting Commissioner Linda] Stiff said. 'To reach these people, the IRS and
> Treasury will work closely with the Department of Veterans Affairs, the
> Social Security Administration and key beneficiary groups on outreach
> efforts.'"
>

I suggest that we herd these Social Security recipients into a
classroom, hand out 1040As, have them fill out their names, addresses,
etc show them where line 20a is, have them sign the forms and have them
mail them in. That would fix the IRS.

On the other hand H&R etc could have a special and rake in $50 or so and
do this for the clients

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Taxmanhog · Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 54

>"Avrum Lapin" wrote,

>
> I suggest that we herd these Social Security recipients into a
> classroom, hand out 1040As, have them fill out their names, addresses,
> etc show them where line 20a is, have them sign the forms and have them
> mail them in. That would fix the IRS.
>
> On the other hand H&R etc could have a special and rake in $50 or so and
> do this for the clients

For the NET-SAVVY senior, how about FREE-FILE web programs.....?

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ebetts3 · Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 55

On Feb 13, 8:02 pm, "Taxmanhog" wrote:
> >"Avrum Lapin" wrote,
>
> > I suggest that we herd these Social Security recipients into a
> > classroom, hand out 1040As, have them fill out their names, addresses,
> > etc show them where line 20a is, have them sign the forms and have them
> > mail them in. That would fix the IRS.
>
> > On the other hand H&R etc could have a special and rake in $50 or so and
> > do this for the clients
>
> For the NET-SAVVY senior, how about FREE-FILE web programs.....?
>
> --
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

Trouble is you can't e-file a Zero $ AGI, so they will have to add $1
to interest to do it.

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Ira Smilovitz · Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 166

wrote in message @s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 13, 8:02 pm, "Taxmanhog" wrote:
>> >"Avrum Lapin" wrote,
>>
>> > I suggest that we herd these Social Security recipients into a
>> > classroom, hand out 1040As, have them fill out their names, addresses,
>> > etc show them where line 20a is, have them sign the forms and have them
>> > mail them in. That would fix the IRS.
>>
>> > On the other hand H&R etc could have a special and rake in $50 or so
>> > and
>> > do this for the clients
>>
>> For the NET-SAVVY senior, how about FREE-FILE web programs.....?
>
> Trouble is you can't e-file a Zero $ AGI, so they will have to add $1
> to interest to do it.

It's not a $0 AGI. The AGI will be the amount of nontaxable SS or disability
earnings.

Ira Smilovitz

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Phil Marti · Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 2520

"Ira Smilovitz" wrote:

> It's not a $0 AGI. The AGI will be the amount of nontaxable SS or
> disability earnings.

Ira, are you sure about this? All I saw was that they're to show the
benefit on line 20a. If they then follow the instructions for line 20, 20b
and, thus, AGI will be unaffected. Also,you couldn't just plop the total
benefit in 20b, because that would wind up with phantom taxable income in
many cases.

How veterans are supposed to cope with line 20 instructions with respect to
a pension remains beyond my ken.

I tell ya, the blimp is looking better all the time.

--
Phil Marti
Clarksburg, MD

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Bill · Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 618

Phil Marti raised this issue (regarding requirement to file, even if no
tax due, in order to qualify for the "rebate").

FWIW, our TaxAide (TCE) Site is already seeing huge crowds who've heard
they have to file a tax return -- even though they owe no taxes -- in
order to qualify for the rebate.

And IRS news releases plus media stories are reinforcing this message.
So we're e-filing lots of "no tax due" returns, because it doesn't seem
fair to block these folks from qualifying for their refunds.

Indeed, Phil's "blimp distribution" idea looks better and better ...

Bill

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Harlan Lunsford · Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 790

Ira Smilovitz wrote:

> It's not a $0 AGI. The AGI will be the amount of nontaxable SS or disability
> earnings.
>

Well, now, the reason it's called AGI, which stands for adjusted gross
income, is because it is gross income that is adjusted for such things
as exclusions.

So yes, even though Gross income includes total social security, and for
these purposes gross veterans benefits, AGI will still be zero, and thus
not efilable.

Unless of course, IRS rallies and fiddles around with the layout specs
for efiling.

ChEAr$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA

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Ira Smilovitz · Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 166

"Phil Marti" wrote in message $%g.503@trnddc08...
> "Ira Smilovitz" wrote:
>
>> It's not a $0 AGI. The AGI will be the amount of nontaxable SS or
>> disability earnings.
>
> Ira, are you sure about this? All I saw was that they're to show the
> benefit on line 20a. If they then follow the instructions for line 20,
> 20b and, thus, AGI will be unaffected. Also,you couldn't just plop the
> total benefit in 20b, because that would wind up with phantom taxable
> income in many cases.
>
> How veterans are supposed to cope with line 20 instructions with respect
> to a pension remains beyond my ken.
>
> I tell ya, the blimp is looking better all the time.
>
> --
> Phil Marti
> Clarksburg, MD

That's what I get for responding without looking. For some unknown reason, I
thought 20a was actually 21 (other income) and that SS and VA recipients
were being told to report the nontaxable portion as if it were other income
and that the amount reported would be offset by the std deduction and
personal exemption.

Forget I ever said anything. (please!)

Ira Smilovitz

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Ira Smilovitz · Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 166

"Ira Smilovitz" wrote in message $0$16670$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
> "Phil Marti" wrote in message
> $%g.503@trnddc08...
>> "Ira Smilovitz" wrote:
>>
>>> It's not a $0 AGI. The AGI will be the amount of nontaxable SS or
>>> disability earnings.
>>
>> Ira, are you sure about this? All I saw was that they're to show the
>> benefit on line 20a. If they then follow the instructions for line 20,
>> 20b and, thus, AGI will be unaffected. Also,you couldn't just plop the
>> total benefit in 20b, because that would wind up with phantom taxable
>> income in many cases.
>>
>> How veterans are supposed to cope with line 20 instructions with respect
>> to a pension remains beyond my ken.
>>
>> I tell ya, the blimp is looking better all the time.
>>
>> --
>> Phil Marti
>> Clarksburg, MD
>
> That's what I get for responding without looking. For some unknown reason,
> I thought 20a was actually 21 (other income) and that SS and VA recipients
> were being told to report the nontaxable portion as if it were other
> income and that the amount reported would be offset by the std deduction
> and personal exemption.
>
> Forget I ever said anything. (please!)
>
> Ira Smilovitz

As a followup, I notice today that the IRS issued another press release
stating that they are working with the tax software community to try to
allow e-filing $0 AGI returns.

Ira Smilovitz

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