Dependent question

WD · Joined: 20 Feb 2008 Posts: 5

I have a girlfriend who lives with me. Her daughter who was 17
throughout 2007 also lived with us.
Can I claim her as a dependent, and / or claim head of household
due to her living with us.
I did provide for her as her Dad refuses to pay child suppert. (thats
in the courts as I type this)

She had very little income and was a student.

Thanks

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Archived from group: misc>taxes>moderated

Mark Bole · Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 327

WD wrote:
> I have a girlfriend who lives with me. Her daughter who was 17
> throughout 2007 also lived with us.
> Can I claim her as a dependent,

No -- typically the girlfriend/mom would be a taxpayer and so her
qualifying child could not be your qualifying "other person". (Assuming
all the other requirements for dependency are not in question). If the
mom has gross income below $3,400 and doesn't file a tax return, then
possibly yes. (Not sure about those who file a tax return in 2007 only
to get the stimulus credit rebate check).

and / or claim head of household
> due to her living with us.

No. Even if she is your dependent, she will not qualify you for HOH.

> I did provide for her as her Dad refuses to pay child suppert. (thats
> in the courts as I type this)
>
> She had very little income and was a student.

So, either mom, or dad with mom's cooperation, can claim the daughter as
a dependent.

-Mark Bole

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Phil Marti · Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 2520

"WD" wrote:

>I have a girlfriend who lives with me. Her daughter who was 17
> throughout 2007 also lived with us.
> Can I claim her as a dependent, and / or claim head of household
> due to her living with us.

Head of Household, definitely not. You don't have a "qualifying person,"
who must be related to you by blood, marriage or legal placement of a foster
child, in the home in question.

Dependent, maybe. If you can claim your girlfriend as a dependent you can
also claim her daughter. It's both or neither. See IRS Publication 501.

--
Phil Marti
Clarksburg, MD

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William Brenner · Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 139

WD wrote:
> I have a girlfriend who lives with me. Her daughter who was 17
> throughout 2007 also lived with us.
[Snip]

Hmm. Did she not have a birthday celebration during the entire year?
(Sorry, couldn't resist)

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WD · Joined: 20 Feb 2008 Posts: 5

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:42:48 EST, William Brenner
wrote:

>WD wrote:
>> I have a girlfriend who lives with me. Her daughter who was 17
>> throughout 2007 also lived with us.
>[Snip]
>
>Hmm. Did she not have a birthday celebration during the entire year?
>(Sorry, couldn't resist)

Yes on December 3rd turned 18, so almost no birthday ha-ha

Ok I did forget to mention that the mother ( my girlfriend ) did
have an income of 2400.00 yes 24 hundred all year.

Just a little info on all this.
on September 26th her daughter (the child in question) went to take
her brother home , at the same time the police were persuing an
individual who was going the wrong way on the interstate, hence hit
her daughter and son head on ,
resulting in her son's death.

This has really been an emotional year and I am just trying to get all
I can for my providing for them.

I am a firefighter (31 years) and we do not make a whole lot of
money.

An extra couple grand in a refund sure would help.

Thanks to all who read and offer advice!!!!

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Phil Marti · Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 2520

"WD" wrote:

> Ok I did forget to mention that the mother ( my girlfriend ) did
> have an income of 2400.00 yes 24 hundred all year.

Let's recap the facts. The household for 2007 consisted of you, your
girlfriend and your girlfriend's 18 year old daughter. (I assume from the
unquoted sad part of your story that GF's son did not live with you.) Aside
from approximately $2400 of income to your girlfried you were the sole
support of the household.

Verify this in IRS Publication 501, but it appears that both GF and her
daughter qualify as your dependents for 2007. That does not necessarily
mean that you should claim the daughter.

If GF's $2400 was from a job she qualifies for the Earned Income Credit. At
exactly $2400 the tax benefit of that credit would be $825. To get that tax
benefit from the daughter's exemption you would have to be in the 25%
bracket

So, figure returns for both you and GF under the following scenarios:

Scenario 1:

You file Single with both GF and daughter as dependents. If GF had tax
withheld, she files a Single return as a dependent to get a refund of the
tax withheld.

Scenario 2:

You file Single with only GF as a dependent. GF files as a Single dependent
with no dependents but one qualifying child for Earned Income Credit.
(Nobody claims the daughter's personal exemption in this scenario.)

Then you can pick which scenario is best for the household.

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Phil Marti
Clarksburg, MD

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Mark Bole · Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 327

WD wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:42:48 EST, William Brenner
> wrote:
>
>> WD wrote:
>>> I have a girlfriend who lives with me. Her daughter who was 17
>>> throughout 2007 also lived with us.
>> [Snip]
>>
>> Hmm. Did she not have a birthday celebration during the entire year?
>> (Sorry, couldn't resist)
>
> Yes on December 3rd turned 18, so almost no birthday ha-ha

This information is important, for example in 2008 the daughter cannot
be anyone's qualifying child (for the Earned Income Credit, for example)
unless she is a full-time student, or permanently and totally disabled.

[...]
> I am a firefighter (31 years) and we do not make a whole lot of
> money.
>
> An extra couple grand in a refund sure would help.

Unfortunately neither of these two facts have any bearing on your tax
situation.

-Mark Bole

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Arthur Kamlet · Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 2053

In article ,
Phil Marti wrote:
>"WD" wrote:
>
>> Ok I did forget to mention that the mother ( my girlfriend ) did
>> have an income of 2400.00 yes 24 hundred all year.
>
>Let's recap the facts. The household for 2007 consisted of you, your
>girlfriend and your girlfriend's 18 year old daughter. (I assume from the
>unquoted sad part of your story that GF's son did not live with you.) Aside
>from approximately $2400 of income to your girlfried you were the sole
>support of the household.
>
>Verify this in IRS Publication 501, but it appears that both GF and her
>daughter qualify as your dependents for 2007. That does not necessarily
>mean that you should claim the daughter.
>
>If GF's $2400 was from a job she qualifies for the Earned Income Credit. At
>exactly $2400 the tax benefit of that credit would be $825. To get that tax
>benefit from the daughter's exemption you would have to be in the 25%
>bracket
>
>So, figure returns for both you and GF under the following scenarios:
>
>Scenario 1:
>
>You file Single with both GF and daughter as dependents. If GF had tax
>withheld, she files a Single return as a dependent to get a refund of the
>tax withheld.
>
>Scenario 2:
>
>You file Single with only GF as a dependent. GF files as a Single dependent
>with no dependents but one qualifying child for Earned Income Credit.
>(Nobody claims the daughter's personal exemption in this scenario.)

Phil

See the 2007 1040 instructions page 45, step 4 question 3.

That prevents someone who can be claimed as a dependent
from claiming EIC.

--

ArtKamlet at a o l dot c o m Columbus OH K2PZH

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Phil Marti · Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 2520

"Arthur Kamlet" wrote:

> See the 2007 1040 instructions page 45, step 4 question 3.
>
> That prevents someone who can be claimed as a dependent
> from claiming EIC.

You never get to Step 4 if you have a qualifying child. See Step 3,
Question 2, which is the test (are you a qualifying child?) for people with
a qualifying child.

--
Phil Marti
Clarksburg, MD

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WD · Joined: 20 Feb 2008 Posts: 5

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 20:30:34 EST, Mark Bole wrote:

>WD wrote:
>> On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:42:48 EST, William Brenner
>> wrote:
>>
>>> WD wrote:
>>>> I have a girlfriend who lives with me. Her daughter who was 17
>>>> throughout 2007 also lived with us.
>>> [Snip]
>>>
>>> Hmm. Did she not have a birthday celebration during the entire year?
>>> (Sorry, couldn't resist)
>>
>> Yes on December 3rd turned 18, so almost no birthday ha-ha
>
>This information is important, for example in 2008 the daughter cannot
>be anyone's qualifying child (for the Earned Income Credit, for example)
>unless she is a full-time student, or permanently and totally disabled.
>
>[...]
>> I am a firefighter (31 years) and we do not make a whole lot of
>> money.
>>
>> An extra couple grand in a refund sure would help.
>
>Unfortunately neither of these two facts have any bearing on your tax
>situation.

Yes I understand that completey. (just get a little frustrated, we
have been to hell through all this) I am trying to gain knowledge, so
I do not do something I am not entitled to do.

I went to a firefighters wife who is a cpa and she told me that I
could claim the daughter. I just want to verify the "rule" that
allows me to do this.
I appreciate all the help, and plan to read pub 501 today, and get
back here if I have any questions.

THANKS
>
>-Mark Bole

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Mark Bole · Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 327

Phil Marti wrote:
> "Arthur Kamlet" wrote:
>
>> See the 2007 1040 instructions page 45, step 4 question 3.
>>
>> That prevents someone who can be claimed as a dependent
>> from claiming EIC.
>
> You never get to Step 4 if you have a qualifying child. See Step 3,
> Question 2, which is the test (are you a qualifying child?) for people with
> a qualifying child.

Table 36.1 in 2007 Pub 17 "Earned Income Credit in a Nutshell"(1) is a
really easy-to-use, concise list of the rules (Chapter 36 itself is EIC
in detail).

The scenario where a dependent can still use a qualifying child for EIC
makes for a challenging test question for those learning tax preparation.

-Mark Bole

(1) is the IRS allowed to use phrases like "in a nutshell"?

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Phil Marti · Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 2520

"WD" wrote:

> I went to a firefighters wife who is a cpa and she told me that I
> could claim the daughter. I just want to verify the "rule" that
> allows me to do this.

Also check out the EITC for your girlfriend to see if it's better not to
claim the daughter even if you can.

--
Phil Marti
Clarksburg, MD

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Harlan Lunsford · Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 790

WD wrote:

(snippeeeedddd.)

> Yes I understand that completey. (just get a little frustrated, we
> have been to hell through all this) I am trying to gain knowledge, so
> I do not do something I am not entitled to do.
>
> I went to a firefighters wife who is a cpa and she told me that I
> could claim the daughter. I just want to verify the "rule" that
> allows me to do this.
> I appreciate all the help, and plan to read pub 501 today, and get
> back here if I have any questions.

She is correct. IRS put out clarifying information on this very point
late last year, IF memory serves.

ChEAr$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA

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Doug · Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 19

Phil:
> Scenario 2:
>
> You file Single with only GF as a dependent. GF files as a Single dependent
> with no dependents but one qualifying child for Earned Income Credit.
> (Nobody claims the daughter's personal exemption in this scenario.)
>

It's amazing. And yes, also according to Pub. 596. To get EIC
without qualifying child, you yourself cannot be a qualifying child
nor a dependent of someone else. But when you do have a qualifying
child, it's only the first restriction. Amazing. And a good
opportunity for some tax planning.

-Doug

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WD · Joined: 20 Feb 2008 Posts: 5

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:48:41 EST, Harlan Lunsford
wrote:

>WD wrote:
>
>(snippeeeedddd.)
>
>> Yes I understand that completey. (just get a little frustrated, we
>> have been to hell through all this) I am trying to gain knowledge, so
>> I do not do something I am not entitled to do.
>>
>> I went to a firefighters wife who is a cpa and she told me that I
>> could claim the daughter. I just want to verify the "rule" that
>> allows me to do this.
>> I appreciate all the help, and plan to read pub 501 today, and get
>> back here if I have any questions.
>
>She is correct. IRS put out clarifying information on this very point
>late last year, IF memory serves.
>
>ChEAr$,
>Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA

Well after all kinds of research, it appears my best scenario is:

Do not claim GF (although her income was only 2400, she had a debt
reducxtion form for 1700)

Claim Gf's daughter as a dependent, and me head of household.

I still cannot find anything that states I can claim GF's daughter
but I was told I can.
She lived with us all year (2007) only made about $600, and her Dad
paid zero child support.

So if anyone thinks this is wrong please let me know.
And if anyone can point me to an exact spot in a Publication showing
where I can do this with GF's daughter I would appreciate it for my
peace of mind.
Thanks to all

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