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A Simple tax Proposal to Ensure America's Success in the Glo

 
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Shared Growth



Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:58 am    Post subject: A Simple tax Proposal to Ensure America's Success in the Glo Reply with quote

For decades the United States was economy was overwhelmingly dominant.
We had such a tremendous advantage in wealth, manufacturing power and
technology that we could afford to toss away resources, whether it be
on rebuilding Europe and Japan, on engaging in the expensive arms race
that broke the Soviet economy, or on misguided policies that
encouraged U.S. firms to locate their activities abroad. That time is
gone. We now owe more than $9,000,000,000,000 to foreign countries
because we no longer sell enough things that other countries want to
be able to pay for the goods that we import. Our manufacturing
operations have largely relocated to other countries - we became a net
importer of high technology goods for the first time in 2002, and our
deficit has increased each year since then. America's dominance of
technical publications and college degrees is fading quickly and
surely.

Globalization was supposed to help our country by opening up foreign
markets for our products, but that presupposes that the United States
produces things that other people want to buy. As foreign nations
with low wage rates have improved their infrastructure, though,
companies have naturally moved their manufacturing operations to
locations where the wage rates are a fraction of what they are in
America. The economists tell us that fact should not worry us, because
of the theory of "comparative advantage". Low value, labor intensive
production will move to developing nations with low wage rates, but it
will be replaced by the production of high value, high technology
goods here in the U.S., which will benefit everyone.

If the U.S. had sensible tax policies, that might be true. But we
don't. In our system, a corporation that earns a dollar from
manufacturing high technology goods in certain countries will keep the
full dollar. If they manufacture the same goods in the United States,
they will keep only about 60 cents after federal and state taxes. In
other words, simply by locating their high value activities abroad, a
company can earn more than 50% more than if they performed the same
activities in the U.S. Corporate managers are not stupid. They respond
to these incentives, and the rapidly increasing number of well
educated foreign workers enables corporations to shift activities to
the most tax efficient location. Our "comparative advantage" thus
dissolves. In direct consequence, the market power of middle class
American workers has been fading, leading to nearly 30 years of
stagnant real income growth for the bottom 99% of our population.

The responses proposed by Congress and the I.R.S. so far have just
made matters worse. The I.R.S. has been attacking U.S. research
operations in a way that just encourages corporations to move their
R&D to other countries. Chairman Rangel has recently proposed a
measure that would encourage multinationals to fire their U.S.
administrative personnel and move those activities abroad. Some in
Congress have proposed subjecting U.S. multinationals to current world-
wide taxation of all of their income, a move that would decrease the
value of many companies by 25% or more and cause them to be acquired
by foreigners with large reserves of cash in strong currencies. We
cannot afford such policies any more.

There is a simple solution. The Shared Economic Growth proposal,
explained in detail at www.sharedeconomicgrowth.org , would instead
provide a strong incentive for corporations to move their valuable
operations back inside the U.S. borders, simply by allowing
corporations a deduction for dividends that they pay out. At the same
time, it would increase the earnings working people receive on their
pension savings by over 50%. The proposal is largely self-funding (no
voodoo economics here - the corporate tax savings are directly made up
for by taxes on the shareholders receiving the dividends), with the
balance of the revenue made up by eliminating a couple of unnecessary
and unfair distortions in our tax code, and by an extra 7.5% tax on
individual income in excess of $500,000 per year. This is a small
price to pay for saving our economy, restoring our economic security,
giving market power back to the middle class, and boosting pension
savings. The problem with the proposal is that it does not fit neatly
into either party's usual set of canned speaking points. Enacting it
would require politicians to care more about policy than about
politics. Does anyone out there care enough about America's future to
stop bickering and do something useful for a change?

Archived from group: us>taxes
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Paul Thomas, CPA



Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 3094

PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:13 pm    Post subject: Re: A Simple tax Proposal to Ensure America's Success in the Reply with quote

"Shared Growth" wrote
> If the U.S. had sensible tax policies, that might be true. But we
> don't. In our system, a corporation that earns a dollar from
> manufacturing high technology goods in certain countries will keep the
> full dollar. If they manufacture the same goods in the United States,
> they will keep only about 60 cents after federal and state taxes.




Absolutely untrue. There's no company in this country where tax is 40% of
gross sales.






> There is a simple solution. The Shared Economic Growth proposal,
> explained in detail at www.sharedeconomicgrowth.org , would instead
> provide a strong incentive for corporations to move their valuable
> operations back inside the U.S. borders, simply by allowing
> corporations a deduction for dividends that they pay out.


You do understand that there are many factors for locating a business to
another country. Total costs play a role (labor seems to rule here, not
taxes), so does access to natural resources, less rules and regulations
(that cost money to abide by).........the list goes on, and yes, taxes are a
consideration, but not the driving force.
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Shared Growth



Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:19 pm    Post subject: Re: A Simple tax Proposal to Ensure America's Success in the Reply with quote

On Dec 11, 7:13 am, "Paul Thomas, CPA"
wrote:
> "Shared Growth" wrote
>
> > If the U.S. had sensible tax policies, that might be true. But we
> > don't. In our system, a corporation that earns a dollar from
> > manufacturing high technology goods in certain countries will keep the
> > full dollar. If they manufacture the same goods in the United States,
> > they will keep only about 60 cents after federal and state taxes.
>
> Absolutely untrue. There's no company in this country where tax is 40% of
> gross sales.
>
> > There is a simple solution. The Shared Economic Growth proposal,
> > explained in detail atwww.sharedeconomicgrowth.org, would instead
> > provide a strong incentive for corporations to move their valuable
> > operations back inside the U.S. borders, simply by allowing
> > corporations a deduction for dividends that they pay out.
>
> You do understand that there are many factors for locating a business to
> another country. Total costs play a role (labor seems to rule here, not
> taxes), so does access to natural resources, less rules and regulations
> (that cost money to abide by).........the list goes on, and yes, taxes are a
> consideration, but not the driving force.

You will note that I said "earn", thus net profit, no sales. The
average U.S. rate inclusive of state is about 40%.

And yes, I am head of tax for a major multinational corporation and am
involved on a daily basis in EXACTLY how location decisions are made.
It's on an all-in post tax cost basis. For highly manual, low value
work labor cost drives the decision. For high value, high tech jobs of
the sort that the U.S. is supposed to be keeping, Tax drives the math.
This is personal knowledge talking, not junk theory.
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Paul Thomas, CPA



Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 3094

PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:54 pm    Post subject: Re: A Simple tax Proposal to Ensure America's Success in the Reply with quote

"Shared Growth" wrote
> You will note that I said "earn", thus net profit, no sales. The
> average U.S. rate inclusive of state is about 40%.


Corporate net profit. Cool.

For 2002, 93% of all "C" corporations fell below $10 million in gross sales.
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/02ot2busbr.xls
The combined bottom line was a net loss - ie: no federal or state income tax
would be due on net losses - for that group.

FYI: The inclusive tax rate is 0% for this 93% group of corporations.





Not until you get to the $10+ million in sales would you see a combined net
profit. So 7% of all "C" corporations pay corporate income tax. The
average tax rate would be 34%.

So you want to pass legislation that is designed to influence 7% of
corporations.








> And yes, I am head of tax for a major multinational corporation and am
> involved on a daily basis in EXACTLY how location decisions are made.



Yeah, yeah, yeah.....and the cow jumped over the moon.

But that brings up a really cool point. You don't have a clue as to how US
taxes work, and that income derived IN the US is taxed IN the US regardless
of where the company calls "home". Only foreign earned income, that would
be taxed in the US for US companies (but most often subject to some foreign
tax credit) escapes US tax. All US sourced income is taxed at US tax rates.
So a German company doing business IN the US pays tax on it's US sourced
income at the same rate as US companies. Dito for any other company from
any other country.

Or do you just think you get to claim to be a Bahamanian company and avoid
US tax on all your US income.




> It's on an all-in post tax cost basis. For highly manual, low value
> work labor cost drives the decision. For high value, high tech jobs of
> the sort that the U.S. is supposed to be keeping, Tax drives the math.


And are the "high value, high tech jobs" that go over-seas......those
salaries are:

Higher ____

Lower ____

The same ____


nuff said. It's wage cost driven, not corporate tax driven.







> This is personal knowledge talking, not junk theory.



I'm quite sure.
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Shared Growth



Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:04 am    Post subject: Re: A Simple tax Proposal to Ensure America's Success in the Reply with quote

On Dec 11, 3:54 pm, "Paul Thomas, CPA"
wrote:
> "Shared Growth" wrote
>
> > You will note that I said "earn", thus net profit, no sales. The
> > average U.S. rate inclusive of state is about 40%.
>
> Corporate net profit. Cool.
>
> For 2002, 93% of all "C" corporations fell below $10 million in gross sales.http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/02ot2busbr.xls
> The combined bottom line was a net loss - ie: no federal or state income tax
> would be due on net losses - for that group.
>
> FYI: The inclusive tax rate is 0% for this 93% group of corporations.
>
> Not until you get to the $10+ million in sales would you see a combined net
> profit. So 7% of all "C" corporations pay corporate income tax. The
> average tax rate would be 34%.
>
> So you want to pass legislation that is designed to influence 7% of
> corporations.
>
> > And yes, I am head of tax for a major multinational corporation and am
> > involved on a daily basis in EXACTLY how location decisions are made.
>
> Yeah, yeah, yeah.....and the cow jumped over the moon.
>
> But that brings up a really cool point. You don't have a clue as to how US
> taxes work, and that income derived IN the US is taxed IN the US regardless
> of where the company calls "home". Only foreign earned income, that would
> be taxed in the US for US companies (but most often subject to some foreign
> tax credit) escapes US tax. All US sourced income is taxed at US tax rates.
> So a German company doing business IN the US pays tax on it's US sourced
> income at the same rate as US companies. Dito for any other company from
> any other country.
>
> Or do you just think you get to claim to be a Bahamanian company and avoid
> US tax on all your US income.
>
> > It's on an all-in post tax cost basis. For highly manual, low value
> > work labor cost drives the decision. For high value, high tech jobs of
> > the sort that the U.S. is supposed to be keeping, Tax drives the math.
>
> And are the "high value, high tech jobs" that go over-seas......those
> salaries are:
>
> Higher ____
>
> Lower ____
>
> The same ____
>
> nuff said. It's wage cost driven, not corporate tax driven.
>
> > This is personal knowledge talking, not junk theory.
>
> I'm quite sure.


OK, I get it. The "A" in your CPA does not stand for "Accountant" but
for something else.

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